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Post by GtF on Dec 4, 2007 2:00:26 GMT
Hello. When I started this whole thing I was a complete beginner to webcomics and comics in general, I still am actually So I'm quite curious as to what people think about Dreamleak so far. Y'see, feedback is really the only reward you get when you do something like a webcomic and it's also the only way you can tell if what you're doing is appreciated, so criticism, good or bad is probably the best thing you can receive from readers. CRITICIZE ME! (please)
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Post by publius on Dec 4, 2007 5:04:48 GMT
I am enjoying it. The art has a quiet charm of its own, and the strip as a whole (so far) appeals to my personal sensibilities regarding dreams. It puts me in mind of Kipling's story The Brushwood Boy, which I find marvellous in the true sense of the word. If you like, it subverts the usual idea of maturity involving closing off and leaving behind dreams -- instead, they are truly found for the first time.
Of course, I am the fellow who, at the age of 7, negotiated a non-agression treaty with the monsters in the dark, and afterward was not bothered by night terrors.
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wireman
Sleep Deprived
^ Kurau from Phantom Memory Kurau ^
Posts: 8
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Post by wireman on Dec 4, 2007 5:15:01 GMT
I like the comic a lot. I like the ways in which it is similar to Count Your Sheep, Rice Boy, and Dresden Codak. I like that it has a solid plot (so farish) but isn't afraid to get sidetracked. I even like the wiggly links and encuted jargon and characters.
The art is honestly really high-quality for a webcomic. I'll be realistic: It's no Applegeeks or Minus, but you do a really good job with perspectives, reflections, and shadows, especially compared with many other webcomics, and to my mind, those little-noticed but actually really difficult things count for a lot.
To me, your characters are interesting, lifelike, and best of all, mysterious. They aren't all twelve-year-olds (did I mention I watch anime... oh wait, that's my own fault.), and even the one that might be has complex feelings and is smart (instead of being angsty and overreactive. Many characters are purely reactive, yours are proactive, and that's one of the highest compliments that I can give.
Now I have to think of something to criticize, because otherwise this post would be pure fawning.
After a bit of thought (and much of the archives), the only thing I can really give criticism of is the fact that your characters' heads sometimes look better when they're in the background than when they're close up, although I need to say that you're expressions are really great... Maybe the hair is the thing?
So all in all, I find myself at a loss to criticize. Maybe if I were a serious webkomiker I could give some better criticisms, but I'd still feel bad doing so.
-Peter Mawhorter
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KBF
Drowsy
Posts: 18
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Post by KBF on Dec 4, 2007 7:29:17 GMT
While not a 'serious' reviewer like the previous two, this comic is great. It's a very unique, and in a way, heartwarming story about a disenchanted young girl who gets stuck in a story... Kind of the mirror opposite of Count Your Sheep, now that I think about it.
I really look forward to seeing what's going on, because call me dumb, I can't figure it out.
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Post by Haxar on Dec 4, 2007 10:45:39 GMT
Another unserious reviewer here. So far, I really like it. It's art style is perfect for the story which is a lot of fun. Like everyone else has said, it's similar to CYS, which I'm also a big fan of, but somethings like the ongoing story set it apart too. I hope this grows to be equally popular. I also really like how the silliness of the dreams contrasts with the relatively serious real world. Such is life I guess. I can't wait for more of this comic to be posted. My favourite part so far has to be the ghost's expression (if he is a ghost) when little birds and bees start flying around his head. Still makes me chuckle ;D
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age
Sleep Deprived
Posts: 2
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Post by age on Dec 4, 2007 11:48:52 GMT
I think what immediately appeals about Dreamleak to me is that the ideas in it and the places it seems to be going are really exciting, but you haven't just come out and said quite what's going on. There's a great sort of suspense to it.
I found Dreamleak through the ad on Gunnerkrigg Court, and I think there's a similar sort of exciting ambiguity between the storylines. But then Dreamleak also has a nice sort of emotional development.
I cannot wait to see where you take this fantastic series.
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Post by sapphire on Dec 4, 2007 12:46:20 GMT
I love the comic.
I'm totally smitten with Count Your Sheep and I found Dreamleak when you guested there.
I'm a sucker for anything whimsical and gently surreal so the submarine surfacing in the grass had me hooked.
The artwork is very competent and just realistic enought to convey the sense of wonder in the story.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.
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Post by publius on Dec 7, 2007 5:32:37 GMT
I love the fact that they have a book called "Viking Burials". I'd expect that kind of thing around my house. (Quoth the mover, "you have more books than normal people.")
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Post by sapphire on Dec 8, 2007 15:54:20 GMT
I love the expression on her face as she's reading the book on viking burials.
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Post by mnorthstar on Dec 17, 2007 4:05:24 GMT
Hi, I just found this comic, and I instantly fell in love with it. I'd like to take you up on the request for critique, but before I do, lest you get the wrong idea, let me first name a couple of things that I especially liked, instead. One is the clean and simple site, centered squarely on the comic itself, without a lot of unnecessary bells and whistles to distract from the reading. Yet there are some frills, like the hovering navigation buttons, which in their understated elegance complement the site. What I've seen of the code is also very clean and well-structured. Kudos. Where you could improve on the site would be to change your file naming scheme to include proper pagination. The system you have now is rather unintuitive, and for example makes anticipating things like the 50th anniversary comic very difficult. Also, you ought to mark the archive page more clearly (I was halfway through this post when I realized there even *was* an archive lurking behind what, until then, I'd assumed was just the site logo), and also perhaps change the colour scheme, as blue links over lavender background isn't the easiest to see. As an additional suggestion, how about writing a little about yourself, and perhaps putting it on the contact page? Maybe even with a drawing of yourself in the same style as the comic? That would be nice, I think. The story itself is also nice and very well-paced. Amy is an engaging child who doesn't seem either too old or too young for her age. Too often children (both in comics, movies and, even written stories) are portrayed as either cloyingly sweet or utterly obnoxious. Alternately they can sound much too adult: as a fan of Count Your Sheep, you must have noticed how often in the later strips Kathy speaks in Adis' voice rather than her own. By contrast, Amy's dialogue reads both very sweet and very realistic to me. Her conversations with her mother, especially, are a very delight. The way she berated her mum for "teaching an impressionable kid to hide from problems" was... I just wanted to hug her till she passed out from lack of oxygen XD I really enjoyed it On the other hand, when by herself, Amy tends to get a little too expository. That's fine for now, but you should be aware that if carried too far, it could break readers out of their suspension of disbelief. The biggest problem that I'm seeing, though, is the order of the panels, and the order of elements in the panels, what is called the flow. McCloud's newest book, "Making Comics" has a section on flow, have you read it? The narrative function of the page layout in comics imposes some rather severe limitations on composition, which can't be easily ignored, lest the reader get the actions out of order, and be confused. For example, on this page, it takes at least two readings to realize the correct order of dialogue balloons. It actually took me three tries, and it's made worse by the fact that it's one of the few pages with an actual punch-line. In other instances, you group panels mostly for aesthetics, I think, which isn't always conductive for narration. See here and here, where most readers would tend to read the panels up and down, then over to right, and get the sequence wrong. The only other point I can think of is that Amy and her mother look too similar. It's very hard to tell them apart at a glance. Of course you can't do any drastic changes to character designs now, but perhaps some brighter clothes for one of them? Oh and that reminds me: I hope you're not going to have us call the mum Amy's Mum forever. That may have worked for Bill Waterson, but here it seems to me that Amy's Mum is as much in focus as Amy herself, so she really should have her own name soon. In eager anticipation of more of your comic, yours M. Northstar
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Post by GtF on Dec 19, 2007 0:14:40 GMT
Thanks to everyone who given some feedback, it really is greatly appriciated. I've been meaning to reply to the responses in this thread for a while now but have put it off because there is so much I would like to say and almost certainly I'd not have enough time to reply to everyone and so it ends up looking a bit inconsiderate on my behalf. I thought I'd try to avoid being rude to anyone by not saying anything at all. It makes sense to me at least. However, Mr M. Northstars' last post there has broken my silence because it almost seems as if he has written an entire essay. To not respond to it would be a perfect example of being an arse. Where you could improve on the site would be to change your file naming scheme to include proper pagination. This is something I have been meaning to do for a while now actually. When I started I'd never really made a working website before and I just sort of mashed it together using Dreamweaver, but after the initial creation of the site, Dreamweaver liked to keep making a mess of the coding so I skipped that and learnt how to update manually with good ol' notepad! So yeah, the filing system I've got going is terribly messy, but it's just like an untidy bedroom, its a chaotic mess but you know exactly where everything is. As an additional suggestion, how about writing a little about yourself, and perhaps putting it on the contact page? Maybe even with a drawing of yourself in the same style as the comic? That would be nice, I think. I may just do that. Over the holidays I plan to do a bit of renovating with the extra pages of the site. Amy is an engaging child who doesn't seem either too old or too young for her age. Amy's dialogue reads both very sweet and very realistic to me. Her conversations with her mother, especially, are a very delight. I am so unbelievably greatful for this comment. From my screenwriting lectures we were told to only write about things that we are familiar with and then we would produce our best work. Having my head firmly in the clouds most of the time, I didn't really like this advice so when I started writing Dreamleak as practice, I told myself that if I can manage to pull off convincing dialogue of a young girl and her mother, I'll be ready to write anything! On the other hand, when by herself, Amy tends to get a little too expository. That's fine for now, but you should be aware that if carried too far, it could break readers out of their suspension of disbelief. Oh. Well almost ready for anything! The biggest problem that I'm seeing, though, is the order of the panels, and the order of elements in the panels, what is called the flow. McCloud's newest book, "Making Comics" has a section on flow, have you read it? I have not, but I'll certainly look into it. To be honest I've never really been into comics and, subsequently, webcomics. Where I grew up the only thing close to a comic of any sort was 'The Beano.' I was more into films and animation than knobbly-kneed anti-social tearaways terrorising people in the street and then running away while repeatedly saying 'chortle.' I guess my first impressions of what a comic is was a bad one. So really coming into this world of webcomics is literally like taking my first steps into comics full stop. I'm used to making moving images and so the transition of coming from this to making a comic has been a steep learning curve for me. Although, I like to think that my fresh, uninfluenced mind to comics is a good thing as it means I can go about oblivious to what everyone else has done and create something that is truely, originally mine. Coming across CYS was a good thing but also a bit scary to see some of the similarities that everyone has previously mentioned. The only other point I can think of is that Amy and her mother look too similar. Yep. Oh and that reminds me: I hope you're not going to have us call the mum Amy's Mum forever. That may have worked for Bill Waterson, but here it seems to me that Amy's Mum is as much in focus as Amy herself, so she really should have her own name soon. The trouble I've got with introducing Amy's mums' name is that how often does a child call their parents by their first names? And I don't want to just simply go ahead and reveal in conversation in an obvious and awkward way. Don't worry though, she does have a name.
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soiledrainbow
Sleep Deprived
Je pense donc je suis - Descartes
Posts: 1
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Post by soiledrainbow on Jan 1, 2008 23:47:30 GMT
For a beginner in the webcomic world, I think you're doing splendidly. I'll submit more of an opinion later when I'm collected. Just keep up the comic, it's a tiny light of happiness
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Post by mnorthstar on Jan 2, 2008 20:04:32 GMT
However, Mr M. Northstars' last post there has broken my silence because it almost seems as if he has written an entire essay. To not respond to it would be a perfect example of being an arse. Essay length posts, that's me alright But remember that these posts, mine especially, exist for your sake. The important thing is that you see these opinions and consider them. Beyond that, do whatever you feel comfortable with. So there's no pressure to respond. No matter how big a charge I personally get out of it From my screenwriting lectures we were told to only write about things that we are familiar with and then we would produce our best work. Having my head firmly in the clouds most of the time, I didn't really like this advice so when I started writing Dreamleak as practice, I told myself that if I can manage to pull off convincing dialogue of a young girl and her mother, I'll be ready to write anything! It's good advice, but the secret to obeying rules is that their only reason for existing is for you to think about them before you break them. There are some things that we understand and know almost instinctively, without having direct or organized experience of them. To paraphrase a Persian poem/proverb that I like, if you *only* write about things you know that you know, you'll never discover what things you know that you didn't know you knew. On the other hand, when by herself, Amy tends to get a little too expository. That's fine for now, but you should be aware that if carried too far, it could break readers out of their suspension of disbelief. Oh. Well almost ready for anything! Nah, it's OK. Like I said, it's just something to keep in the corner of the eye, so it doesn't get out of hand. The difference, I think, is because when writing Amy's dialogues with her mum, you're trying to make her sound like a young girl, whereas in the monologues, you're driven more by the need to provide exposition. If that's so, and if I may take the liberty to float a suggestion, you might consider the use of thought balloons. They suffer from an undeservedly seedy reputation in modern comics - ironically, in part because of their overuse for exposition in super hero comics (another part is an unfortunate desire of some comic artists to want to emulate movies and animation, which has always struck me as a stupid reason. Or at least, disdaining a powerful tool of your own medium in order to suck up to another art form, no matter how honourable, doesn't sound like a recipe for good quality to me) - but they would be apropos here. After all, it's more natural for someone who is alone to think to themselves, rather than talk out loud, and in the privacy of our thoughts we *do* tend to be a bit more rambling than in actual speech. The biggest problem that I'm seeing, though, is the order of the panels, and the order of elements in the panels, what is called the flow. McCloud's newest book, "Making Comics" has a section on flow, have you read it? I have not, but I'll certainly look into it. To be honest I've never really been into comics and, subsequently, webcomics. Where I grew up the only thing close to a comic of any sort was 'The Beano.' I was more into films and animation than knobbly-kneed anti-social tearaways terrorising people in the street and then running away while repeatedly saying 'chortle.' I guess my first impressions of what a comic is was a bad one. So really coming into this world of webcomics is literally like taking my first steps into comics full stop. I'm used to making moving images and so the transition of coming from this to making a comic has been a steep learning curve for me. Although, I like to think that my fresh, uninfluenced mind to comics is a good thing as it means I can go about oblivious to what everyone else has done and create something that is truely, originally mine. Coming across CYS was a good thing but also a bit scary to see some of the similarities that everyone has previously mentioned. Hah! I actually was going to comment on how you seemed to have more of an animation sensibility than a comic one, but I didn't want to make my post even longer, and I also didn't cherish the idea of tasting my own foot if it should happen I was wrong. Well, as someone who was raised on Tintin and Asterix, and currently reads over 200 webcomics (not all updated daily, or even frequently, thank God), let me be the first to welcome you to *our* cozy little corner of the madhouse It does sound like your first encounter was an unfortunate one. I'm not familiar with this "Beano" comic, but it sounds like just the kind of lowest-common-denominator gag-comic that I also hate. Well, from your link page, it seems you have made a decent start on supplying the deficiency, but just to suck you in further, let me direct your attention to a review I recently posted on another board, for a comic that, with such an experience, you might pass over by yourself. Oh, and btw, I'm not sure I'm getting the subtext here right, but just to be on the safe side: if you haven't read McCloud's *first* book, "Understanding Comics: the Invisible Art", be absolutely sure to do so first. Any library worth its salt should have a copy. Oh and that reminds me: I hope you're not going to have us call the mum Amy's Mum forever. That may have worked for Bill Waterson, but here it seems to me that Amy's Mum is as much in focus as Amy herself, so she really should have her own name soon. The trouble I've got with introducing Amy's mums' name is that how often does a child call their parents by their first names? And I don't want to just simply go ahead and reveal in conversation in an obvious and awkward way. Don't worry though, she does have a name. I hear you. It can be a hard thing to work into a coversation, but there are other ways. The easiest way would be to "accidentally" show it written somewhere. The greeting card in the 50th comic would have been an opportunity, for example. Or one of the moving boxes, perhaps. Or, you know, just tell us, outside of the story, so we can discuss her without spraining our grammars ;-) Well, that seems to be all for this time. *Looks at his newest post wearily* Another bloody essay. Oh, twin sirens of Rhetoric and Linguistics, how you tempt me from the righteous path. I would curse you, but I am afraid that you would take offense, and visit me no more. Yours M. Northstar
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Post by GtF on Jan 12, 2008 0:01:44 GMT
Another part is an unfortunate desire of some comic artists to want to emulate movies and animation, which has always struck me as a stupid reason. Or at least, disdaining a powerful tool of your own medium in order to suck up to another art form, no matter how honourable, doesn't sound like a recipe for good quality to me. I have had some trouble with this. Dreamleak actually started off as a storyboard for an animation but I started adding dialogue and including more details and eventually started boxing the seperate images together onto one page in a strip format. I basically started a comic strip without realising it. Over time though I've come to realise that trying to make a film or animation work as a comic is the pretty much the same as trying to make a computer game into a movie. It never works. You can get all the flashy visuals to come across ok, but you cannot transfer the moods and feelings unique to one art form to another. Or if you can, it's very difficult. I like to think that I am in someway coming to terms with this. AH! So your THAT M. Northstar. I had already already read your 'rants' over at Comic Nation. You got some pretty good recommendations. It's weird that I never made the connection that it was you before. I guess on the vast digital plains of the internet you never really expect to meet the same person twice... Let me be the first to welcome you to *our* cozy little corner of the madhouse Thanks! I think...
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Post by benjohn78 on Jan 14, 2008 16:23:37 GMT
The narrative function of the page layout in comics imposes some rather severe limitations on composition, which can't be easily ignored, lest the reader get the actions out of order, and be confused. For example, on this page, it takes at least two readings to realize the correct order of dialogue balloons. Like I told Greg (Hey man, is it okay I call you by your first name?) thru email, he couldn't see me, but I was clapping when I read his webcomic. All thanks to the sheer brilliance of this panel. No 'oooohs' or 'aaaahs' from our girl-hero (feminine version of 'hero' types out like a favorite over-administered illegal drug by members of our race), just livin' the moment.. unsure of her new place, & last thing she needs is more surprises. Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant..
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